Curse

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Then i'll step back some more. They'll never catch me 'cause "charge!" is awesome.

You are the warrior of the party. If you step back, who's going to take the damage inflicted by the enemy? Use charge? You are saying that you run away to heal and then come back?

Arkantos · Mar 25, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

You are the warrior of the party. If you step back, who's going to take the damage inflicted by the enemy? Use charge? You are saying that you run away to heal and then come back?

Enemies will already be targeting your casters due to their lower AL. Generally warriors take the initial aggro and damage, but once the casters start casting enemies tend to attack them also. Falling back to use a heal isn't going to wipe your party unless your party is bad.

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Enemies will already be targeting your casters due to their lower AL. Generally warriors take the initial aggro and damage, but once the casters start casting enemies tend to attack them also. Falling back to use a heal isn't going to wipe your party unless your party is bad.

That's why I want the enemies to attack me instead of the casters. That way, I wouldn't need to self-heal to begin with. But then that's a contradiction right there because I was just talking about getting the enemy off my back so I can heal. Sigh, why does everything have to be so complicated?

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 25, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I haven't needed Heal Sig since I started using hero Monks and of course since I began using W/P D Slash build. If this is about PVP, I could understand using a self heal if you're going to split from the team to kill NPCs. Otherwise I don't think Heal Sig is needed in any PVE area I can think of.

Crom The Pale · Mar 25, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Heres the real break down on Lions comfort vs Healing signet.

Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.

1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.

2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.

Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Heres the real break down on Lions comfort vs Healing signet.

Lets say we have 2 warriors attacking an elemental boss. Both get low on HP and the monks are busy with softer party members.

1: War with healing signet runs from the boss, needing to leave casting range(agro circle) to spend 2 seconds casting Healing signet then runs back to continue attacking. - total time 6 seconds for max 150 self heal.

2: Warrior with Lions Comfort activates it, hits the boss four more times, then heals a second time and continues his assualt. -total time 6 seconds for 200+ self heal and deals out 4 more attacks.

Lets all face the facts, Healing Signet is for farming builds and Charge AB builds and the occasional running build. Lions Comfort is for any other time a warrior absolutely must carry a self heal into battle.

I wish I had Lion's Comfort! Must get NF (yeah, like that's going to happen anytime soon)!

kazjun · Mar 26, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I reckon the only advantage of HS is it's on demand. LC needs adren, so you can't use it too well as a runner (well you can, "to the limit" etc). But as for an in battle heal, why is anyone even saying to bring a cover stance nowadays? LC isn't a drain on adren anymore, and it's pretty much uninterruptable. Surely the choice if you want a self heal on the frontlines? Well, if you've got NF that is.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 26, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

I reckon the only advantage of HS is it's on demand. LC needs adren, so you can't use it too well as a runner (well you can, "to the limit" etc). But as for an in battle heal, why is anyone even saying to bring a cover stance nowadays? LC isn't a drain on adren anymore, and it's pretty much uninterruptable. Surely the choice if you want a self heal on the frontlines? Well, if you've got NF that is.

Healing sig is a better skill if you actually need to heal. The "on demand" thing turns out to be a really big deal. If you're blinded or hex stacked, LC is unavailable. If you need to chain cast it, it's unavailable. If you need to heal up quickly after a skirmish, LC isn't going to be there. Those situations are the only times I use healing signet with any regularity.

LC shines in those situations where you shouldn't need a self heal in the first place. It offers maximized efficiency when you're happily beating on enemies and don't have to care about kiting or shutdown. When that happens, you should be beating on things and letting your backline worry about red bars. However, this covers just about every situation in PvE, so if you don't have confidence in your monks in PvE, feel free to take it. In a properly functioning team though, you'll probably never use it.

blue.rellik · Mar 26, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

What Strangelove said covers it, Heal Sig is still better simply because of the on demand part, it's the only part that's better but it certainly means a lot.

However that said, I can see myself taking Lion's Comfort with me when I'm H/Hing simply because Lion's Gives a bunch of adrenaline when used, it works incredibly well with hammers since it lets me break backs or earthshake much more often.

kazjun · Mar 26, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

True, but if you're wanting a self heal that is uneffected by blind etc or after battle healing, there are far better skills than putting 8-10 points into tactics. For LC, there's likely going to be a few points in str for flail etc already. And I wouldn't touch it in pvp outside of RA.

The only place I'd use HS nowadays is running and in RA. Anywhere else there are better options.

Edit: Not that I suggest you bring LC to pvp either.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 26, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

True, but if you're wanting a self heal that is uneffected by blind etc or after battle healing, there are far better skills than putting 8-10 points into tactics. For LC, there's likely going to be a few points in str for flail etc already. And I wouldn't touch it in pvp outside of RA.

The only place I'd use HS nowadays is running and in RA. Anywhere else there are better options.

Edit: Not that I suggest you bring LC to pvp either.

This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.

Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

What Strangelove said covers it, Heal Sig is still better simply because of the on demand part, it's the only part that's better but it certainly means a lot.

However that said, I can see myself taking Lion's Comfort with me when I'm H/Hing simply because Lion's Gives a bunch of adrenaline when used, it works incredibly well with hammers since it lets me break backs or earthshake much more often.

I was running a backbreaker bar with FGJ!, Lion's comfort and mokele smash for a while. It was pretty darn fun. However, LC ended up being an adrenaline machine more than a self heal.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.

Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal.

Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy.

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is the part where you mention healing breeze so we can all make fun of you.

Every other self heal out there uses energy that a warrior doesn't have (healing breeze, every other skill that uses energy really), has the same problems as LC (shadow refuge, victorious sweep), uses too many skill slots (signet of pious light), or has a long cast time (troll unguent). I can't think of any others offhand, but healsig really is pretty decent if you need a self heal.

The only problem with Healing Signet, is that if you're under fire, it's not really going to help you much.
Out of battle, yeah, but mid-battle it's asking to get outdamaged easily.

All I would say is just not use self-heal on a Warrior. Warriors' high inherant armour, and their damage capabilities which can take a skill over a self-heal, and be even stronger in damage output is much nicer.

All I can really, truly say is: Leave it to the Monks....or N/Rts....

Dr Strangelove · Mar 26, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy.

Then you're screwed whether you have a self heal or not. I suggest bringing a better monk build or a N/rt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

The only problem with Healing Signet, is that if you're under fire, it's not really going to help you much.
Out of battle, yeah, but mid-battle it's asking to get outdamaged easily.

True, but Lion's comfort isn't enough to keep you up either if you're taking a significant amount of damage, it'll just buy your monks a few more seconds to wake up and fix your boo-boo. Love your monks. Cherish them. Don't give your heroes bad builds.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Then you're screwed whether you have a self heal or not. I suggest bringing a better monk build or a N/rt.

Not if you have LC.

blue.rellik · Mar 26, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I was running a backbreaker bar with FGJ!, Lion's comfort and mokele smash for a while. It was pretty darn fun. However, LC ended up being an adrenaline machine more than a self heal.

I tried something similar the day LC was buffed. LC was less a heal and more of a adrenaline engine, using it more or less charged Rush which meant I could cancel Flail. However it's healing is nothing spectacular and won't save you if you're in danger of dying, it was really just to heal some random damage every now and then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Say you are at 50 hp and under attack, HS still pretty decent? Oh, I forgot to mention that your spamming monk hero is out of energy.

Monk heroes is so last century. Pros use Rt/* or N/Rts who don't run out of energy easily.

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 26, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

To all you guys saying LC > HC for healing/reliability: lol

Tyla · Mar 26, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

True, but Lion's comfort isn't enough to keep you up either if you're taking a significant amount of damage, it'll just buy your monks a few more seconds to wake up and fix your boo-boo. Love your monks. Cherish them. Don't give your heroes bad builds.

Nor would HS for that matter.
You're more likely to be out-damaged before you get to the heal.

Draginvry · Mar 26, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I've found LC usefull in PvE. I will try to use it right before I get spiked, so that when it finished casting my health bar will immediately go up. It takes a little pressure of the monks and gives me an adren.

I think LC is more usefull in PvE. I'd rather keep aggro and trust my monks, than spec tactics and find a place where I can heal sig in safety. Although I have to admit that I thought LC was crap before they added that adren gain to it, because all it did before was suck your attack power dry, not to mention Rush.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 26, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Not if you have LC.

It's a decent stopgap in PvE if you have crappy monks, since it'll buy you a few more seconds. However, the easier solution is to not have a crappy backline. If your healbot can't afford to pump 100 hp or so into you every 5ish seconds, something is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Monk heroes is so last century. Pros use Rt/* or N/Rts who don't run out of energy easily.

[skill]healer's covenant[/skill]

y halo thar

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Nor would HS for that matter.
You're more likely to be out-damaged before you get to the heal.

Which is why you really don't need a self heal, especially with stuff like SY! around.